Caste Leads to Split, Class Will Unite: Anand Teltumbde

“May be I was wrong, all the while, in understanding world. In understanding love, pain, life, death. There was no urgency. But I always was rushing. Desperate to start a life. All the while, some people, for them, life itself is curse. My birth is my fatal accident. I can never recover from my childhood loneliness. The unappreciated child from my past.”

Above is excerpt from the suicide note written by Rohith Vemula, A Dalit scholar at the University of Hyderabad killed himself on Sunday night, nearly two weeks after he and four other students were suspended by authorities and thrown out of the hostel.

Newsclick interviewed Civil Rights Activist and Writer Anand Teltumbde on the issue of institutional discrimination of the Dalit students in the higher education and other issues pertaining to the Dalit Life World.  

Question: Whatever has happened in the Hyderabad Central University (HCU) and incidents thereafter, regular protests have taken place and the police has unleashed it brutality on the student community. What is your stand on that?

Anand: You see, whatever has happened in Hyderabad is in public domain to recall the facts of the case. The entire episode started with the screening of 'Muzaffarnagar Baaki Hain' -- the documentary by Nakul. The police brutality is condemnable. But this also exposes the nefarious agenda of the current regime which includes rampant saffronisation of the educational institutions.

Question: One can clearly see that there are external forces acting upon the university. Even the campuses are being clearly saffronised. And the functionaries who have prejudices against Dalit students have done this. Isn’t it?

Anand: This fact cannot be denied. So with Dattatreya, the MP and Minister writing to Smriti Irani, the entire episode has taken a different direction. A union minister sending four or five reminders asking them what actions has been taken on the issue is a clear indication on the role everyone has played on this issue. Rohith, whom I personally knew and all the other students had invited me to Hyderabad when they were expelled from hostels. This agitation by the students and the flare up and the beating of the students outside the RSS headquarters clearly reveals the government is out to teach the students a lesson. The students who are not with them are ‘anti-nationals’ according to them. It was actually a message that if you are not with us, you are against us. This is the kind of attitude the government has adopted. It is probably digging their own grave because the things are not going to be same any more.

Question: When we talk about the government, it has adopted an attitude of naming anyone raising voices of dissent as anti-national. We have seen, in different instances, a systematic discrimination being carried out by the state against Dalit students. Please comment.

Anand: The government has been clearly pushing a Hindutva agenda. It has been done. There are prejudices against Dalits. There is no denying of that fact. If you look at the projected allocation for the marginalized communities, it amounts to thousands of crore but not even a fraction of it reaches the targeted groups.

Question: This incidence also brings up the question of reservation. So what's your stand on that? What role you think these affirmative action have in the current scenario?

Anand: See if affirmative action or reservation has helped Dalit is a really big question. The Dalits do not realise that who are visible among Dalits are the middle classes. It’s the middle class or the upper class which benefits from these actions. Rest remains untouched and that is why they are now unable to fill up their reserved quota. That is the manifestation that is not in public domain. People do not notice what is happening. Though there are a number of voices around it, there is no honesty about filling up these reserved seats.

Question: Recently an RTI filed by students in JNU brought out the fact that the marks provided in the viva for the PHD scholars, there is wide gap in the marks provided to the person from the  general category and the marks provided to the person from SC and ST Community.

Anand: Yes, the marks provided in the theory paper and the interview would never co-relate. Dalits do not lag behind in theory as much as in interviews wherever human influence is involved. It is good that people are digging out data etc. our society is so biased and prejudiced.

Question:  This brings me to another question. At Madras IIT, Ambedkar Periyar Circle was banned. Most of the teachers in IIT Madras are from upper caste. Don't you think this prejudice is bound to happen when the faculty is mainly drawn from a section of the society?

Anand: See one thing is, the entire making of the constitution is actually designed for that kind of problem. There should not be any illusion about it. It is not Madras IIT which is singled out. All our IIMs or IITs hardly have any SC or ST faculty.

Question:  The form of exploitation may have changed but it still continues and it still continues on the same section of people. Do you want to want to comment something on that

Anand: This is again often repeated remark.  Urbanisation has doubled in the last five year. People claimed that probably, caste like issues will be irrelevant as the society gets more industrialized.  One should go back to 1850 etc when railways where coming to India. Did things change then? No is the answer to it.  People said that with industrialization of India, structures like caste would collapse.  Actually, this did not happen. Caste is a life-long thing and resilient. Unless there is a conscious effort to root it out it will persist in urban India. Before coming to IIT I was in corporate world, I do know corporate world. Even the most modern corporate offices in the country the caste exists. Modernization has many faces.

Question: There was a survey done by Indian Express, around two years ago, which says that every fourth Indian practices untouchability.

Anand: It tells you, caste exists in a feudal form. Actually, you have to relate what has happened over last two decades. Actually we have not taken into consideration the political economy, how it has impacted the caste. After the advent of neo-liberalisation what has happened is suddenly people are embarrassed to speak about caste openly and fear that it would be termed backward. In 60s, 70s and 80s it has totally changed. At the same time, Y2K project had come and India had become IT hub. The technological advancements don’t mean the advancement of the thoughts.  Now, caste is declared openly, you see in TV channels and even written in print media. Not adequately noted by the intellectuals and commentators. It is very unfortunate. This is what is happening in the country.

Question: Anand, this will bring to my last question. What do you think is the role of parties and organizations, which claim to represent the Dalit identity, from here to take forward the demands of the SC, ST community? What role do the Left organizations have in it?

Anand: You asked about the Dalit politicians and Dalit politics as such, what their contributions have been. Post Poona pact which Ambedkar signed with Gandhi, the entire independent Dalit voice was alienated. So Ambedkar in his life time realized that the political connections will become detrimental. The man actually could not win a single election thereafter. Kanshi Ram actually put in it properly that it was chamcha raj which was created. You should take overall situation of Dalits. All those constitutional paraphernalia is no doubt which is being projected, only 10 percent of the people are really benefited and 90 percent of the people are left actually at the start of the Dalit movement. So, it is pitiable kind of thing not noted by Dalit intellectuals. I absolutely agree that solution to caste based discrimination is the class based mobilization. Caste is used only to split and not to unite. Many people and many sociologists actually suggest that caste has become category. So use the caste medium and you are bound to split. Forming alliances on basis of the economic conditions of the individuals i.e. class based alliance is the way ahead to bring people on a single platform.